Thomas speaks with Theodore, a former member of the Atomwaffen Division, an infamous neo-Nazi paramilitary organization. Theodore describes how AWD’s ideology underwent a dramatic shift, with the group’s National Socialist extremism being supplanted by an even more sinister and perverse anti-human Satanism, associated with the Tempel ov Blood, a nexion of the Order of Nine Angles. The conversation goes into the details of how this shift took place, including the troubling role of FBI informant Joshua Sutter. Theodore talks about his journey into and out of this dark world and how he now understands all of it through his Orthodox Christian faith. The guys discuss different crimes associated with Atomwaffen, how the mainstream and fringes of society contain the same nihilistic and self-worshiping traps, the involvement of intelligence agencies with trafficking, the AWD’s perspective on various American Nazi figures, and what people get right and wrong about radicalization narratives.